Anyone know what the cost per hour is for a Chieftain?

AML wrote:
>> Anyone know what the cost per hour is for a Chieftain?<<

Try this site:

http://www.planequest.com/operationcosts/op_cost_info.asp?id=199

Are you selling or buying time? Is the plane properly
maintained or a piece of junk?

Where is it, location has a lot to do with fixed costs.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"AML" > wrote in message
...
| Anyone know what the cost per hour is for a Chieftain?

That sites numbers are just about dead on for our Aztec.
Jim

"Kingfish" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> AML wrote:
> >> Anyone know what the cost per hour is for a Chieftain?<<
>
> Try this site:
>
> http://www.planequest.com/operationcosts/op_cost_info.asp?id=199
>

No doubt, but costs vary depending on the age and condition
of the airplane, the cost of fuel and insurance [pilot
qualifications] and thus any price listed should be checked
against your particular operation. Charge too much and
nobody will fly, charge too little and you'll rent it out a
lot and lose money on every hour.
With fuel prices as they are, a dry rental is best for the
renter or a wet rental is better for the rentee.


"Jim Burns" > wrote in
message ...
| That sites numbers are just about dead on for our Aztec.
| Jim
|
| "Kingfish" > wrote in message
|
oups.com...
| >
| > AML wrote:
| > >> Anyone know what the cost per hour is for a
Chieftain?<<
| >
| > Try this site:
| >
| >
http://www.planequest.com/operationcosts/op_cost_info.asp?id=199
| >
|
|

In article >,
"Jim Burns" > wrote:

> That sites numbers are just about dead on for our Aztec.
> Jim
>
> "Kingfish" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > AML wrote:
> > >> Anyone know what the cost per hour is for a Chieftain?<<
> >
> > Try this site:
> >
> > http://www.planequest.com/operationcosts/op_cost_info.asp?id=199
> >
>
>

Obviously the price of gas has gone up. Have you adjusted any other
costs?

In article <sqJfg.25129$ZW3.14256@dukeread04>,
"Jim Macklin" > wrote:

> No doubt, but costs vary depending on the age and condition
> of the airplane, the cost of fuel and insurance [pilot
> qualifications] and thus any price listed should be checked
> against your particular operation. Charge too much and
> nobody will fly, charge too little and you'll rent it out a
> lot and lose money on every hour.
> With fuel prices as they are, a dry rental is best for the
> renter or a wet rental is better for the rentee.
>
>
> "Jim Burns" > wrote in
> message ...
> | That sites numbers are just about dead on for our Aztec.
> | Jim
> |
> | "Kingfish" > wrote in message
> |
> oups.com...
> | >
> | > AML wrote:
> | > >> Anyone know what the cost per hour is for a
> Chieftain?<<
> | >
> | > Try this site:
> | >
> | >
> http://www.planequest.com/operationcosts/op_cost_info.asp?id=199
> | >
> |
> |
>
>

This plane will be used as a charter plane. Does insurance go up then?

Yes, insurance will cost more. And you'll probably have to
wash it and clean the inside more often, charter passengers
often have bouts of airsickness and regurgitate all that
expensive beer and whiskey you have to buy.

You'll also have crew training and flight test costs, the
maintenance becomes mandatory, you can't let a SB slide.

Charter is usually sold by the mile round trip, you need to
convert block cruising speed [probably 20-25% less than max
TAS] to find statute miles to bill by and how many miles
you'll travel in an average hour. You will need to factor
non-revenue hours into the mix and come up with a per mile
price. You also can't vary very much from the competition,
else you won't get any customers if your high. If you're
low ball, you'll get a lot of charter before your account
tells you the cash flow is negative.

A new business has to offer credit and you'll get the
dead-beats the other charter operators have learned to
avoid. You need to be hard line and do credit and
background checks on your customers, you don't want to be
providing "free" services and you don't want to be carrying
drugs or terrorists.

You have crew training, insurance, flight tests,
maintenance, overhaul reserves, fuel, oil, tires, charts,
hanger and tie-down fees, taxes, and advertising. Then you
may get your first revenue flight and get paid eventually.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.



"AML" > wrote in message
...
| In article <sqJfg.25129$ZW3.14256@dukeread04>,
| "Jim Macklin" >
wrote:
|
| > No doubt, but costs vary depending on the age and
condition
| > of the airplane, the cost of fuel and insurance [pilot
| > qualifications] and thus any price listed should be
checked
| > against your particular operation. Charge too much and
| > nobody will fly, charge too little and you'll rent it
out a
| > lot and lose money on every hour.
| > With fuel prices as they are, a dry rental is best for
the
| > renter or a wet rental is better for the rentee.
| >
| >
| > "Jim Burns" > wrote in
| > message ...
| > | That sites numbers are just about dead on for our
Aztec.
| > | Jim
| > |
| > | "Kingfish" > wrote in message
| > |
| >
oups.com...
| > | >
| > | > AML wrote:
| > | > >> Anyone know what the cost per hour is for a
| > Chieftain?<<
| > | >
| > | > Try this site:
| > | >
| > | >
| >
http://www.planequest.com/operationcosts/op_cost_info.asp?id=199
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
| This plane will be used as a charter plane. Does insurance
go up then?

Jim Macklin wrote:
> You have crew training, insurance, flight tests,
> maintenance, overhaul reserves, fuel, oil, tires, charts,
> hanger and tie-down fees, taxes, and advertising. Then you
> may get your first revenue flight and get paid eventually.
>


There's no need to sugar coat it... tell him the truth about the business!




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:aOQfg.25274$ZW3.17979@dukeread04...
> Yes, insurance will cost more. <real world stuff snipped> Then you
> may get your first revenue flight and get paid eventually.
> --
> James H. Macklin
> ATP,CFI,A&P

And on top off all that you have to pay your employees, the payroll taxes,
unemployment taxes, workers comp insurance, what no benefits??? oops, here
comes health insurance, dental, eye glasses, AFLAC, 401k, vacation pay, sick
pay....

Non airplane company owned vehicles? License, registration, insurance, gas,
maintenance...

Corporation or LLC?
Accountants, lawyers, state and federal filing fees, corporate
registration...

Oh, this isn't a cash operation? Bankers, interest, fees, lines of credit
and operating loans on top of initial purchase loans...

Dispatcher, receptionist, chief pilot, co pilot, backup on call pilot,
A&P/AI, go-fer/floor sweeper...

who buys the charts? Top pilots will insist that you do... GPS
subscriptions? XM weather subscription? AD/SB/Maintenance manuals and
subscription services?

Phone lines, heat, electricity, internet service, cleaning service...

Uniforms?
Overnight hotels for the crew?
Non flying hour pay for the crew?
Per deim allowance for crew expenses?
What about maintenance? More full time employees?
What equipment and tools will you have to own that your mechanics won't
have?
Spare parts inventory?

Oh, did I mention depreciation? Yep, every thing you bought just got worth
less when you want to sell it.

Worth it? Absolutely... IF your true love and passion is aviation. Because
it will only be that love and passion that sees you through the hardtimes,
hardship, and the heartache that comes with any business.
One of the most common attributes of truly successful businessmen is that
they excel and prosper by doing things that they love and have a passion
for.

Approach it with your eyes and mind wide open, and only then open your
wallet.

Sincerely wishing you good luck... it can be done.

Jim

Old saw about horses and aviation, To make a small
fortune---start with a big fortune.




"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" >
wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| > You have crew training, insurance, flight tests,
| > maintenance, overhaul reserves, fuel, oil, tires,
charts,
| > hanger and tie-down fees, taxes, and advertising. Then
you
| > may get your first revenue flight and get paid
eventually.
| >
|
|
| There's no need to sugar coat it... tell him the truth
about the business!
|
|
|
|
| --
| Mortimer Schnerd, RN
|
|
|
|

>"AML" wrote in message > Anyone know what the cost per hour is for a
Chieftain?

Retail for 135 is around $780/hr.

D.

>"AML" wrote in message > Anyone know what the cost per hour is for a
Chieftain?

Part 135 retail for $780/hr.
I run 2 Chieftains (plus other types) under Part 135. The naysayers here
have good points, but their points are not insurmountable. If you are the
pilot, mechanic, and answering machine, with a niche market, you can make
decent money.

Here's a few tips-

You do NOT have to extend credit to anyone. Accept major credit cards before
the flight leaves. Have a signed contract from the customer with detailed
wording about non-refundable monies in the event of a cancelation on the
customer's part, and a detailed itinerary. Inevitably someone will back out
because they found a better deal after signing the contract. When they back
out, they dispute the non-refundable charges with the credit card company.
You simply fax in a copy of the contract that they signed and you win.

Stay away from the freight feeder contracts. These contracts are put out to
bid and awarded to the cheapest bidder. Most of these contracts will provide
you with cash flow from the steady business, but without any profit because
you had to bid so low to get it. One serious unscheduled maintenance event
and you're out of business.

As a single plane operation, you will need to seek out an alliance with
another operator to cover your downtime. Pick one who you hope won't steal
your clientele. Don't steal his clientele. Commercial aviation is a small
world and burnt bridges don't get rebuilt.

Keep your plane clean inside and out. Even the Greyhound crowd expects to
travel in style when they shell out that kind of money, no matter that they
show up in T-shirts and flip-flops. Cover avionics holes in the panel.
Vaccuum up pet hair immediately after a flight with animals. Have their
favorite liquor and snacks onboard. Fly smooth.

D.

In article >,
"Jim Burns" > wrote:

> "Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
> news:aOQfg.25274$ZW3.17979@dukeread04...
> > Yes, insurance will cost more. <real world stuff snipped> Then you
> > may get your first revenue flight and get paid eventually.
> > --
> > James H. Macklin
> > ATP,CFI,A&P
>
> And on top off all that you have to pay your employees, the payroll taxes,
> unemployment taxes, workers comp insurance, what no benefits??? oops, here
> comes health insurance, dental, eye glasses, AFLAC, 401k, vacation pay, sick
> pay....
>
> Non airplane company owned vehicles? License, registration, insurance, gas,
> maintenance...
>
> Corporation or LLC?
> Accountants, lawyers, state and federal filing fees, corporate
> registration...
>
> Oh, this isn't a cash operation? Bankers, interest, fees, lines of credit
> and operating loans on top of initial purchase loans...
>
> Dispatcher, receptionist, chief pilot, co pilot, backup on call pilot,
> A&P/AI, go-fer/floor sweeper...
>
> who buys the charts? Top pilots will insist that you do... GPS
> subscriptions? XM weather subscription? AD/SB/Maintenance manuals and
> subscription services?
>
> Phone lines, heat, electricity, internet service, cleaning service...
>
> Uniforms?
> Overnight hotels for the crew?
> Non flying hour pay for the crew?
> Per deim allowance for crew expenses?
> What about maintenance? More full time employees?
> What equipment and tools will you have to own that your mechanics won't
> have?
> Spare parts inventory?
>
> Oh, did I mention depreciation? Yep, every thing you bought just got worth
> less when you want to sell it.
>
> Worth it? Absolutely... IF your true love and passion is aviation. Because
> it will only be that love and passion that sees you through the hardtimes,
> hardship, and the heartache that comes with any business.
> One of the most common attributes of truly successful businessmen is that
> they excel and prosper by doing things that they love and have a passion
> for.
>
> Approach it with your eyes and mind wide open, and only then open your
> wallet.
>
> Sincerely wishing you good luck... it can be done.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>

Thank you guys for all your input so far. So far I figure it will cost
between $2.86/sm to $2.98/sm. Does this seem a little high?

Seems low, we charged that much 15 years ago, when fuel was
under $2. You're talking less than $600 and hour, your fuel
will cost at least $160 an hour. Do you have an accountant
who is aviation knowledgeable?


"AML" > wrote in message
...
| In article >,
| "Jim Burns" > wrote:
| snip| >
|
| Thank you guys for all your input so far. So far I figure
it will cost
| between $2.86/sm to $2.98/sm. Does this seem a little
high?